Thursday, July 22, 2010

Ground Zero Mosque

The Ground Zero Mosque, Is it a Jihadist attempt to build a Mosque on a sacred American site or is all bluster about nothing. Sarah Palin made her feelings clear in this controversial tweet.

Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn't it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate

Others in the GOP clearly feel the same. Watch this ad to see !



Thoughts anyone ?

11 comments:

Gary said...

Ted,
I wrote about this in my blog last week. My feeling about this is split. The law is clearly on the side of the Muslim Center and we can not just go around ignoring our own constitutionally guaranteed rights simply because we feel insulted or do not like the way other people behave, as long as they are not harming anyone or breaking the law themselves.

Having said that I am outraged at the insult this represents to the families of the people who died on September 11th.

As I have said before, it is a question of sensitivity and if the Muslim Center wants to "heel and bridge the gap" between our cultures they should simply move this center a few blocks further away.
If they do not, they are just asking to be the focal point for a lot of anger.

Ted Leddy said...

Gary

I am increasingly coming down on the conservative side here. And I understand the sensitivity of this one. During the Anglo Irish war 1919-21 British soldiers attacked and killed 14 people attending a local Irish sporting event at the "Croke Park" sports stadium. It took us nearly 90 years to allow non Irish sports such as soccer or rugby to be played at the stadium (seen in my last photo of the day) mainly for fear that if the English Soccer or rugby team were to play a match there, the British national anthem would have to be played at the site of a British atrocity.

I am not at all surprised that so soon after the far far worse crime of 9/11 there is such opposition to the building of a Mosque at ground Zero. It is not about opposition to Mosques. There are Mosques all over America and New York. It is about the location. Imagine the uproar if a German political party, even a perfectly respectable one, decided to hold a their party meeting in Krackow Poland.

"If they do not, they are just asking to be the focal point for a lot of anger". Perhaps this is what they want. If the Mosque goes ahead, it will inevitably be subjected to vandalism of some sort prompting claims of Islamophobia and so on.

Paul said...

I am increasingly coming down on the conservative side here. And I understand the sensitivity of this one. During the Anglo Irish war 1919-21 British soldiers attacked and killed 14 people attending a local Irish sporting event at the "Croke Park" sports stadium.'

You might want to examine the use of the term 'British soldiers' for that atrocity. It was not the work of the British Army. I will grant it was an atrocity, and that atrocities were committed in a dirty war. I had a great uncle in the RIC (although it might have been the DMP I'm not sure) and his daughter a child at the time of 1916 etc remembered this period well. She bore no bitterness towards the Army but loathed the Auxiliaries and her dad was in the front line against Collin's lot! Sadly she has passed on but was wonderful company.

Back on topic, this mega mosque is a monument to Islamic imperialism and supremacism. It should not be built, but no one should be surprised at the crass insensitivity of it. It is what Islamic organisations do. I am not predisposed to be tolerant of this nonsense. I live in an attractive country village that is like what most of Britain once was. I love it, but I would never want to live in an area that was 'Islamified' like Bradford. I've lived and worked in the Middle East, I know Islam and why it will not integrate. In spite of many Muslims being decent people. All I see is one way tolerance in large parts of Europe. Depressingly the only people who oppose it are nutty right wing jobs like the BNP. The debate in America is more mature as witnessed by this mosque brouhaha. But even there you see the far left and its craven desire to appease.

thesystemworks said...

The law is on the Muslim's side.

But this is clearly a provocation and demonstration of supremacism.
They built a mosque on top of the Temple Mount, Judaism's holiest site, for the same reason.

And it wont be the end.

The organised Islamic community wants to test the West, and see what they can get away with. It reminds me of all the cases that have been brought against English schools forcing them to accommodate certain modes of Islamic dress, that are not even observed by most of the Muslim community. For instance, Denbigh High School in Luton ended up being obliged to allow a girl to wear a jilbab, a restrictive form of dress favoured by fundamentalists. There is no Quranic source for the jilbab, nor any scriptural authority that requires it. Denbigh High School already had a uniform policy worked out with the local Muslim community that respected their needs.

A group called Hizb ut-Tehrir was determined to fight the case to the highest court in the land. They wanted to see if a Western nation would defend the idea of secular space and human equality, or could a public space be colonised by a culturally restricted, extreme variety of Islam. And they won.

Paul said...

A group called Hizb ut-Tehrir was determined to fight the case to the highest court in the land. They wanted to see if a Western nation would defend the idea of secular space and human equality, or could a public space be colonised by a culturally restricted, extreme variety of Islam. And they won

They lost the House of Lords overturned it, TSW. Thank f""k!

thesystemworks said...

Whoooops. I stopped following the case out of depression. Thought England would cave. Well done, House of Lords.

Ted Leddy said...

Paul

The structure of Crown forces in Ireland during 1919-1921 is complicated due to the controversial introduction of units such as the auxiliaries and Black N Tans that did not fall under the normal command structure. However, saying that they were not British soldiers sounds like an attempt to wash British hands form their actions, the most common of which was burning the property of citizens they believed assisted the IRA. These units were sent in by the British government therefor the responsibility lay with them. To be fair, I believe there was outrage in Britain at the time. The controversy nearly brought down the liberal conservative coalition led by Lloyd George.

I would say your late relative had some interesting stories to tell for sure.

If your Great Uncle was facing Collin's lot it is more likely he was in the DMP. Collins was responsible for the intelligence war in Dublin, he had very little to do with the organisation and operation of flying columns that took on the RIC/Black N Tans throughout the country.

Back on Topic
"no one should be surprised at the crass insensitivity of it".

I agree. Those behind the Mosque claim it "promotes tolerance, reflecting the rich diversity of New York City"

I don't think this is what it is about. Did you know the project is called the Cordoba initiative ? Cordoba of course was the capital of the Islamic caliphate that ruled Southern Spain during the 14th and 15th century. If it is about tolerance why are they naming it after a city that Jihadists the world over claim is stolen Islamic land that must be reclaimed by force.

I have seen the very troubling images from Bradford, Birmingham and parts of London. I would really like to know how bad it actually is. I too despair that mainstream politicians seem paralysed by Political Correctness when it comes to speaking out against Muslim Ghettoisation.

Ted Leddy said...
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Ted Leddy said...
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Ted Leddy said...

TSW

I agree with your analysis. I'm sure you remember our friend Liam Egan. I believe he complained to his local GAA club that the Camogie sports gear prevented his children from participating in the sport. The GAA club, not knowing the man's agenda complied and permitted leggings and a Hijab to be incorporated into the teams kit. I doubt if this new Islamic friendly kit was ever used. In reality, it was a test, similar to the Luton case you mentioned.

Paul said...

The structure of Crown forces in Ireland during 1919-1921 is complicated due to the controversial introduction of units such as the auxiliaries and Black N Tans that did not fall under the normal command structure. However, saying that they were not British soldiers sounds like an attempt to wash British hands form their actions, the most common of which was burning the property of citizens they believed assisted the IRA.

I agree with much of that, however the fact remains that the Auxiliaries were not British soldiers. Just like Blackwater USA were not American soldiers. The relationship between the British Army and the Auxiliaries was difficult. Many individual soldiers admired their toughness, the Army's command however held them in disdain. The RIC hated them but of course if you were in an isolated police post in Kerry or Cork, you might be grateful for the presence of a platoon of auxiliaries. The auxies were also paid substantially more than regular British troops another source of friction. Either way a stupid and nasty war, referred to by Montgomery as the 'murder war'. Interestingly Percival (of Singapore infamy) served as an Intelligence Officer. A damned good one too if you read his recollections, he understood the insurgency well. See the book by Will Sheehan.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Voices-Irish-Independence-1918-1921/dp/1905172370/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279954355&sr=8-1