Monday, August 22, 2011

Tripoli Falls !

As I write this, just after midnight on the 22nd of August 2011, I am watching images on TV of rebels machine gunning murals of Col Gadaffi in downtown Tripoli. The mad dog of the Mediterranean who seized control of Libya in September 1969 is on the run, his fate not yet known. Four Arab dictators have now been overthrown by their people this year. While nobody can be certain what will happen in these countries over the coming months and years, one thing I believe is certain. The era of the Arab dictator, who seizes power violently, and keeps it until his death has come to an end. That is a good thing for the Arab people, Mid East peace and global security. It is also good for human justice and the dignity of man. I find few things more sickening than when a mass murdering butcher dies a free man and of natural causes as the likes of Pol Pot and Idi Amin managed. It is also very satisfying to know that a man who thought for so many years that he got away with it will now face justice, whether that be in front of an international court, or by being ripped limb from limb by his tormented former subjects.

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

The enemies of Islam aiding in the removal of an enemy of Islam - classic! We pray the brave Mujaahideen who tirelessly worked to bring Al-Islam back to Libya will continue to do so unimpeded, reminds me of when the Taliban swept away the communist scourge in Afghanistan.

Gary said...

Ted,

I am not nearly as optimistic as you are. The fall of the Arab dictators is a good thing but to think this will do much for Middle Eastern peace and world security is a bit of a reach. Did the fall of Mubarak add to the prospects of world peace -ask Israel. Would the fall of the Syrian regime add to Middle East Stability when he will likely be replaced by a Hezbollah backed regime? Do governments controlled by Islamic fanatics increase the freedoms of the people? Look at Afghanistan under the Taliban or Iran today.

I hope you are right, but I think I'll wait a little while before I celebrate.

That said, I am very happy that Gadhafi will now get a taste of justice -in some form or other.

Gary

Corner Guy said...

I do agree with Gary, all we can do now is wait to see what the future has in store. Meanwhile, I am glad that a tyrant has been brought to justice.

Anonymous said...

Many would argue that the obstacle to peace is the So-called Jewish state itself Gary. Because of its belief that it is chosen it beleives it can act with impunity - and it does except when some brave Arabs give it a taste of its own medicine. I pray that with the demise of those who held the Jewish regime in some regard that a renewed effort will begin to reclaim Palestine for the Palestinians - when that is achieved there will be peace in the region.

Gary said...

Anonymous,
Resolving the Palestine issue is important-no question about it. But I believe the ambitions of the radical Islamic fundamentalists seeking power after the fall of these dictators goes far beyond that issue.

Stability in the region will not be achieved until the Muslims themselves put the extremists in check.

The problem in the West is that we generally fail to recognize that the people there that must do it -it can not be done by Western intervention.

Gary

Anonymous said...

But Gary, to seek to retrieve what is rightly yours cannot and should not be deemed fundamentalism. The Palestinians have seen their land stolen year by year by Jewish immigrants (Jews who resided there prior to 1947 have rights to their land)who erroneously claim it as their land because they are 'chosen'. The real radicals are those who expel, bomb, and discriminate against the Arab population, the real radicals, fundamentalists or terrorists are the Jews.

Gary said...

Anonymous,
Our definitions of "Islamic Fundamentalist Radical" and "Extremist" is obviously quite different. I admire your passion for the Palestinian cause but I have to wonder, why doesn't anyone show any concern for the Kurds in their struggle to reclaim their land? Is it because there are no Jews or Western powers involved? -You bet it is.
Gary

Anonymous said...

Gary - that's not the case at all. The Kurd issue is a complex one not simply the thievery the Jews have engaged in.

Gary said...

Anonymous,

Complex issues? Like the illegal seizure of land, forced re-location, concentration camps, mass murders and religious persecution? Those don't sound like problems in Palestine? Well, you're right though, it does not involve the Jews.

Gary

Anonymous said...

It is true that Palestinians have suffered and continent to suffer such indignities at the hands of the Jews Gary. I really don't know enough to speak about the Kurds but with the demise of Saddam there are reparations for those in Iraq. Like I said, complex but we're not discussing the Kurds, we're talking about the Jews and their continued atrocities in Occupied Palestine.

Gary said...

Anonymous,

That is true, except for the part played and being played by the Turks. The fact that you don't know a lot about it is fine, not many do, but that just makes my point, doesn't it?

Gary

The System Works said...

Anonymous: the issue in the post is Tripoli. You were the one who brought up Israel.

The Kurdish issue is not all that complicated. Neither is the Berber issue. Arab (and Persian) Muslims stole their lands and oppressed them.

The spread of Islam from the Gulf of Arabia to all the lands of the Middle East came by war. The Arab invaders practiced classic apartheid, building cities exclusively for Arab settlers called Amsar (Baghdad was one, as was Basra, and Fostat in Egypt). The Arabs levied discriminatory taxes on local populations. The first Caliphate even violated Islamic principles by strictly regulating conversion to Islam via a Mawla system, whereby a convert became a client of the person who converted him and had to jump through hoops found nowhere in the Quran. They did this so that the predominantly Arab invaders wanted to keep the tax money confiscated from non-Muslim populations flowing. To this day Arabs still crush Berber culture and oppress the Kurds.

Muslim invaders harassed Europe also. Charles Martel turned back the Caliphate forces at the battle of Tours (Northern France) in 732. The Ottomans were famously turned back at the gates of Vienna in 1683, and the Ottoman Empire responsible for the slaughter of the Armenians only disbanded after World War One. The Muslim Ottomans occupied Greece, the Balkans and the Land of Israel for centuries.

Anonymous said...

Your revisionist take on Islamic history is no doubt a product of the hate you've been raises on System where all others are bad and you (the chosen (sic) ) ones are good. Here's an interesting read on racist, prejudiced material used to brainwash Jewish children: http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/07/israeli-school-racism-claim?cat=world&type=article

The System Works said...

Anonymous:

Now you are very blatantly trying to deflect any discussion of Islamic and Arab crimes by dropping irrelevant nonsense about Israel.

All the facts I gave are true, and they would be better known if anti-Western forces like the followers Edward Said and Al Guardian weren't trying to destroy our civilization from within.

I find it hilarious you picked an Al Guardian article about research done by an Israeli communist to prove Israeli schools are 'racist' after attacking communists in your very first comment.

Anonymous said...

Your type would normally label such people 'self-hating Jews' but I guess 'communist' also serves your interests though it is a little dated. Why don't you accuse him of being a covert Islamist, that's more in line with today's rhetoric. Anything but admit the racist, discriminatory nature of your 'chosen' society.

The System Works said...

I take the threat of communism/socialism/extreme leftism very seriously, Anonymous.

Most of the Israel-bashing Jews paraded by Al Guardian and such are communists of Jewish background:

http://thesystemworks.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/idiots-not-included/

I never liked the term 'self-hating' Jew, but there are Jews 'who believe in anti-Semitism' (as a prominent German neo-Nazi described Norman Finkelstein).

Leftists often define racists as anyone who does not adopt their own very specific narrative, so I take accusations such as those laid out in Al Guardian with a pinch of salt. Neither do I believe the traditional Jewish concept of being a 'chosen people' as bigoted. Most Jews take it to mean Jews were chosen for an obligation, and traditional Jewish sources even claim God only came to Jews after other nations refused to accept the Law. Hardly arrogant or supremacist. Even if most Jews were fundamentalists with a supremacist mindset, it wouldn't matter very much. There are only about 15 million Jews in the world, and Jewish law is only meant to be the law of the land in one land, Israel. Jews don't actively proselytize either. There is no Jewish dictum similar to Muhammad's statement that he was meant to fight all men until they submit to Islam.

Ted Leddy said...

Anonymous

This post is about events in Libya. Bringing Israel into it is an attempt to deflect the issue away from the reality that the people of the Middle East have had enough of their tyrans. The unrest across the region is not about Israel or the west. It is about the failure of the current model of Islamic Arab state.

Ted Leddy said...

Gary/Corner Boy

Your pessimism is natural and understandable. However the big difference between what is happening now and what happened post independence when dictators only fell to be replaced by other dictators is that we are living in the communications era. Social networking is a massive challenge to tyranny. No country can ignore the internet if it wants to thrive economically but exposing a nation to it changes the nature of power that exists between the authorities and the people. The old ways of keeping your people ignorant are no more. This is true for dictators like Mubarak and Gadaffi as well as for Islamists who have dictatorial intentions themselves.

Anonymous said...

'This post is about events in Libya. Bringing Israel into it is an attempt to deflect the issue away from the reality that the people of the Middle East have had enough of their tyrans.' There is no attempt to deflect anything, the so-called Jewish state's unfortunate existence is the crux of all that's wrong with the Middle East at the present time. Simply look at history, there was no trouble there prior to 1947.


'The unrest across the region is not about Israel or the west.'

Wrong again! The unrest is a direct result of the tyrants that have been propped up by the west to serve its and the so-called Jewish state's interests. I don't lament the demise of tyrants such as Gaddafi at all. I'm glad to see him go as I believe it will lay the foundation for an Islamic revival in the area. We're already seeing that with Egypt and Syria is witnessing a strong push in the direction of Sunni Islam. All in all events are turning out just fine for Muslims who long to see a strong, unified ummah. Gone are those who would bend to the west.

'It is about the failure of the current model of Islamic Arab state.' Which Islamic state are you talking about?


Systemworks - I see the old Hasbara cut and paste retorts are still going strong. Like I said your 'chosen people' revisionist take on history doesn't wash with anyone who takes the time to investigate. Writing off the likes of Finkelstein with glib comments simply highlights the vaccous nature of your contributions.

The System Works said...

Anonymous: 'there was no trouble there prior to 1947'

Funny you should say that on the anniversary of the 1929 Hebron Massacre: http://thesystemworks.wordpress.com/2011/08/23/massacre-in-hebron-1929/

Anonymous said...

Do you mean the 0.1% killed (comparatively speaking) when Zionists spread the false rumours that Jews in the area were on their way to attack Al Aqsa Mosque? A terrible mistake but Jews in Palestine would once again suffer at the hands of Zionists from 1939-45 and would discover that in the interests of a 'homeland' there were no depths the Zionists wouldn't trawl.

Of course there was another Hebron massacre, when the vile terrorist Goldstein opened fire on innocent men and boys in prayer. But that doesn't interest you as it wasn't suffering for the chosen ones.